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Friday, December 01, 2006

12Z NAM fantasy; No thanks I wont Bite ; Review of my Midwest snowstorm forecast 11/29

Taking a look at the Midwest Big snowstorm... my prediction made Wed afternoon 243 pm EST.... "12z WED models support the Big Midwest Low/ snow WHAT ABOIUT 1ST SECS 12/4-5???" .... said this

6'' seem likely could be more ( up to 12 inches) but for one its warm now and transitioning to cold and the ground will be wet.... Big winners QUINCY ILL along with GALESBURG ILL JACKSONSVILLE ILL PEORIA ILL into DeKALB JOILET and maybe Chicago

I do aplogize to my Midwest fans who wnated to see my snowstorms maps broken out for this event. if I had the time I would of m,ap some maps in the 3 tier systems that I have nbeen usiong since 1999...2000.... 1st guess 1st call Last call


Well be 12z FRI NAM has an interesting solution for Monday recording the possible development of a coastal low over eastern NC and of course seeing this development causes a reaction by some within the meteorological community.

While it is true that the 12z NAM develops this wave of Low-pressure significantly closer to the coast so that it actually produces precipitation from eastern Virginia up into New York City coastal New Jersey Long Island and southern New England on Monday... there are some serious problems with this scenario and these problems are more than sufficient to cause me to look at the fantasy of 12 z NAM solution as well just that... a fantasy.

To be sure this trough is neutrally tilted by the time and reaches the Mississippi River and appears to develop or take on a slightly native tilt by Monday morning as it moves through the Tennessee Valley and the Appalachians. This shift in the trough axis from neutral along the Mississippi River to negatively tilted but time it reaches the Tennessee and the Appalachian Mountains IS ideal for coastal development.

The problem here is that s/w which appears to be fairly strong and swings through the Midwest on Sunday has no reason to slow down. There is no upstream blocking features such as a - NAO or 50/50 Low. Keep in mind as you look at this map you can see a strong Jet streak that is up stream which is associated with this Midwest trough as it reaches the Mississippi river
http://www.nco.ncep.noaa.gov/pmb/nwprod/analysis/namer/nam/12/fp1_060.shtml

An addition the NAM/ WRF past 60 of hours is notoriously are unreliable... and any solution that the model is producing past 60 hours must be compared to other more liable models especially in the early stages of the medium-range. In this way one can do a check to see if the NAM/ WRF 66 to 84 hours solution is not bogus.

http://www.nco.ncep.noaa.gov/pmb/nwprod/analysis/namer/nam/12/fp1_072.shtml

http://www.nco.ncep.noaa.gov/pmb/nwprod/analysis/namer/nam/12/fp1_078.shtml

And of course when we do that we find that there is no other model development which supports the operational 12z NAM. Sure the 12z GFS is a little closer to the coast and shows a bit more development but again this is because we are within the 72-hour time frame . Given how fast the system is moving and how there is no reason for to slow down I cannot find any stenotic lesions as to why he 12z NAM would have such heavy VVs over the coastal Plains of the Northeast-- from eastern VA to southern NJ to NYC the southeastern New England.
And lastly if arguendo the 12z Friday NAM solution is liable then there is the problem of Low level temperatures of which does not support all snow or barely supports a mixed event .
As for the next event December 8 -- 9 there is not much hope left this one either.
As for how long the warm interval is going to last... who knows? One thing that I do now is that the temperatures will not be as warm as what we saw in NOV. The operational European Canadian and GFS as well as those ensembles all show a seasonally mild pattern with a flat Ridge over the Southwest states and good Pacific jet slamming into northern California north to Br Columbia... and some sort weak shallow troughing over the Great Lakes and New England. Again this is a mild pattern with a lot of Pacific air but not the record or near record warmth we have seen for NOV 2006.

Interestingly the 12z GFS for DEC 17--- 372 hrs is fairly cold with some sort a significant trough developing over the central and eastern US and several other members showing a+ PNA redeveloping.
http://www.meteo.psu.edu/~gadomski/ENSHGT_12z/f372.gif

c000 p001 p002 p003 p004 p0005 p008 p009 p010

9 Comments:

  • At 5:42 PM, Blogger DT said…

    yes I have seen the 18z NAM and GFS and Yes I think I have may have been too hasty in dismissing the NAM I am not sold yet one way or the other but there is a trend building here. Lets see what the 0z data shows

    The Good news is that the DT anti snow shield screw zone shows up on the 18z NAM and GFS with the snow/ or snow/ rain mix getting to IAD but not my location


    18z GFS total QPF thru 84 hrs
    http://www.nco.ncep.noaa.gov/pmb/nwprod/analysis/namer/gfs/18/images/gfs_p60_084l.gif

    18z NAM Total QPF thru 84 hrs
    http://www.nco.ncep.noaa.gov/pmb/nwprod/analysis/namer/nam/18/images/nam_p60_084l.gif

     
  • At 7:09 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    WHEW!!!!

     
  • At 7:13 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Dunno, but it seems to me there WERE some 15-20 inch snow amounts in this storm where someone said get a fooking clue.
    Also it seems that the warm spell about to hit is going to be a preview of the winter.
    Sometimes man has to admit he cannot predict the weather.

     
  • At 7:53 PM, Blogger midatlanticweather said…

    Dang the snow sheild.. DT.. Did that arrive a little late.. but just in time to kill first snow threat?

     
  • At 9:10 PM, Blogger DT said…

    STUPID

    there are NO reports of snow amounts of 20"... None. Not in KS... None in MO none in ILL...

    the fact that idiots weenies like you keep Lying and say g 20" does NOT make it so.

    lets look at the facts asshole

    posted Below are 35 snow amounts from the Chicago NWSFO office in ROMEOVILLE IL....

    2 of the 35 had snow OVER 13 inches-- Yet that is a GOOD forecast?

    Chicago got 3-7 inches ... If you were a Met on a Chicago news station and YOU forecast 10-20 " ... and they got 3-7" they would bury you

    but 28 of 35 reports had snow amounts between 4.5 and 13 inches

    clearly MY 6-12" worked out far better



    NZUS12 KLOT DDMMHH
    PUBLIC INFORMATION STATEMENT
    NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE CHICAGO/ROMEOVILLE IL
    345 PM CST FRI DEC 01 2006

    ...STORM SNOWFALL TOTAL REPORTS RECEIVED AS OF 330 PM...
    MEASUREMENTS CONTINUE TO TRICKLE IN SO MORE UPDATES TO COME

    SNOWFALL DATA PROVIDED BY NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE COOPERATIVE
    OBSERVERS...CHICAGO AREA SNOWFALL TEAM MEMBERS...ROCKFORD AREA
    SNOWFALL TEAM MEMBERS...AND THE GENERAL PUBLIC.

    :LOCATION SNOW FALL
    PRINCETON 15.0
    ROCKFORD 14.0
    DIXON 13.5
    OREGON 13.0
    PALATINE 11.7
    GRAYSLAKE 11.6
    NORTH ELGIN 11.0
    HOFFMAN ESTATES 11.0
    ROCKFORD AIRPORT 10.7
    BELVIDERE 6SE 10.2
    DIXON 10.0
    BARRINGTON 9.5
    CHICAGO BOTANIC GARDENS 9.3
    PAW PAW 9.0
    CARPENTERSVILLE 9.0
    ELGIN 8.4
    ST CHARLES 7NW 7.5
    MONTGOMERY 7.0
    CHICAGO-NW SIDE 7.0
    GENEVA 6.5
    CHICAGO-O'HARE 6.2
    BLOOMINGDALE 6.0
    HIGHLAND PARK 5.9
    ROMEOVILLE-NWS OFFICE 5.1
    PLAINFIELD 5.0
    CHANNAHON 4.5
    OAK PARK 4.5
    PLAINFIELD 4.0
    WILLOW SPRINGS 3.0
    MIDWAY 3SW 3.3
    MORRIS 4.6
    OAK BROOK 4.5
    NEWARK 4.5
    FRANKFORT 3.3
    BEECHER 0.5

     
  • At 9:14 PM, Blogger DT said…

    here are the MO snow reports

    again NOTHING even close to 20 inches... 29 stations reporting

    2 stations report 15"
    3 stations report 14"

    18 stations reporting 5 to 13" inches. The 6-12" was a far better forecast

    --------------------
    PUBLIC INFORMATION STATEMENT
    NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE ST LOUIS MO
    1124 AM CST FRI DEC 1 2006

    24 HR SNOWFALL ACCUMULATIONS...

    FIRST ORDER STATIONS...

    STL : ST. LOUIS : 3.9
    COU : COLUMBIA : 15.3

    COOPERATIVE OBSERVATIONS

    IN NORTHEAST MISSOURI...

    CANTON L/D20 : 13.0
    EDINA : 8.0
    HANNIBAL MO : 12.0
    LOUISIANA : 11.0
    NEW LONDON : 10.0
    PALMYRA : 8.0
    PARIS : 13.0
    SHELBINA : 9.5
    STEFFENVILLE : 8.5
    VANDALIA : 8.5

    IN CENTRAL MISSOURI...

    CALIFORNIA : 15.0
    CENTRALIA 11SE : 11.0
    CHAMOIS : 9.0
    CENTRALIA : 14.0
    COLUMBIA : 15.5
    FREEDOM : 8.0
    FULTON : 14.2
    JEFFERSON CITY : 12.1
    JEFFERSON CITY 1NW : 16.3
    MEXICO : 14.0
    ROSEBUD : 6.6

    IN EAST CENTRAL MISSOURI...

    DE SOTO : 1.0
    FESTUS : 1.5
    STEELVILLE : 5.0
    UNION : 6.0
    WARRENTON : 9.0
    WASHINGTON : 6.1

     
  • At 1:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I'm not a board poster but do read the forms.But thought I sould comment on the person who message the preview to winter.Accually everything is going as expected.Lets remember from most December was it expected to be the big show in terms of cold and snow in the east.It is Late december and more importatnly Januarey and febuarey when the true winter patterns locks in and sets up for 2007.Which would make since as some but not all El ninos trend to have its wrost condtions the seacond hafe.If many have been following HM posts his ideals make since and think it very well could be the way we go into winter of 2007.

     
  • At 12:14 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    DT--great posts! Please keep up the great work. Great to see you have the CLEAR facts to shutdown the idiots clogging up the board. I can't wait to get a big snow producer here in SE MI, north of Detroit. Best Regards.

     
  • At 9:54 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Ok, Dt...I read the scroll from 2 Dec update and asking you to respond to your own question which was does the pattern after 16 Dec stay mild or does the east revert back to a colder pattern? I hope you can respond to this in your next blog. Keep up the great forecasting.

    Ed in WV

     

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